Thirty Years Among the Dead by Dr. Carl Wickland

CHAPTER III Subconscious Mind and Auto-Suggestion Hypotheses Untenable

DURING thirty years of indefatigable research among the "dead" such
startling conditions have been revealed that it seems incredible intelligent
reasoners along other lines of thought could have so long ignored the simple
facts, which can so readily be verified. There is utter impossibility of fraud in
these experiences; foreign languages, totally unknown to Mrs. Wickland, are
spoken, expressions never heard by her are used, while the identity of the
controlling spirits has again and again been verified and corroborations
innumerable have been made.

On one occasion I conversed with twenty-one different spirits, who
spoke through my wife, the majority giving me satisfactory evidence of being
certain friends and relatives known to me while they were incarnated. In all,
they spoke six different languages, while my wife speaks only Swedish and English.

From one patient, Mrs. A., who was brought to us from Chicago,
thirteen different spirits were dislodged and allowed to control Mrs.
Wickland,* and of these, seven were recognized by the patient's mother, Mrs.
H. W., as relatives or friends well known to her during their earth lives.

One was a minister, formerly pastor of the Methodist church of which
Mrs. H. W. was a member, who had been killed in a railroad accident nine
years previous, but was still unconscious of the fact; another was her sister-
in-law; there were also three elderly women, family friends for years, a
neighbor boy and the mother-in-law of the patient--all entirely unknown to
Mrs. Wickland.

Mrs. H. W. conversed at length with each one, as they spoke through
Mrs. Wickland, verifying innumerable statements made by the spirits and
assisted in bringing them to a realization of their changed condition, and of
the fact that they had been obsessing her daughter. This patient is today
entirely well and actively occupied with social, musical and family affairs.

Another case will show clearly the transfer of psychosis from patient to
intermediary, and the impossibility of either "sub

*See Chap. 11, "Materialism," Page 256, Spirit: Frank Bergquist. Patient: Mrs. A. Chap.18,
"Orthodoxy,". Page 343 Spirit: J. 0. Nelson. Patient: Mrs. A.


conscious mind" or "multiple personalities" playing any role as far as the
psychic is concerned.

One summer evening we were called to the home of Mrs. M., a lady of
culture and refinement; she was a musician of high rank and when the social
demands made upon her proved too great she suffered a nervous breakdown.
She had become intractable and for six weeks had been in such a raving
condition that her physicians had been unable to relieve her, and day and
night nurses were in constant attendance.

We found the patient sitting up in her bed, crying  one minute
like a forlorn child, and again screaming in fear: "Matilla!
Matilla!" Then suddenly fighting and struggling, she would talk
a wild gibberish of English and Spanish, (the latter a language
of which she had no knowledge).

Mrs. Wickland immediately gave her psychic diagnosis, saying the case
was unquestionably one of obsession, and this was unexpectedly confirmed
when Mrs. Wickland, who was standing at the foot of the bed, with wraps
on ready to leave, was found to be suddenly entranced. We placed her on a
davenport in the music room, where for two hours I talked in turn with
several spirits who had just been attracted from the patient.

There were three spirits--a girl named Mary, her suitor, an American,
and his Mexican rival, Matilla. Both of the men had vehemently loved the
girl and as fiercely hated each other. In a jealous rage one had killed the girl,
and then in a desperate fight the two rivals had killed each other.

All were unaware of being "dead," although Mary said, weeping
wretchedly: "I thought they were going to kill each other, but here they are,
still fighting."

This tragedy of love, hatred and jealousy had not ended with physical
death; the group had unconsciously been drawn into the psychic
atmosphere of the patient, and the violent fighting had continued within her
aura. Since her nervous resistance was exceedingly low at this time, one after
the other had usurped her physical body, with a resulting disturbance that
was unexplainable by her attendants.

With great difficulty the three spirits were convinced that they had lost
their physical bodies, but at last they recognized the truth and were taken
away by our invisible co-workers.

Meanwhile the patient had arisen, and speaking rationally to the
astonished nurse, walked quietly about her room. Presently she said: "I am
going to sleep well tonight," and returning to bed, fell asleep without the
usual sedatives, and rested quietly throughout the night.


The following day, attended by a nurse, she was brought to our home; we
dismissed the nurse, discarded her medicines, and after an electrical treatment,
the patient had her dinner in the general dining room with the other patients,
and that evening attended a function given in our social hall.

Another spirit was removed from her the next day; this was a little girl
who had been killed in the San Francisco earthquake, and who cried
constantly, saying she was lost in the dark. It is needless to add that she was
comforted and promptly cared for by spirit friends, who had been unable to
reach her while she was enmeshed in the aura of a psychic sensitive.

After some months of treatment, rest and recuperation, the patient
returned to her home and resumed her normal life again.

One of our early experiences in Chicago occurred on the 15th of
November, 1906. During one of our psychic circles, Mrs. Wickland,
entranced by a strange entity, fell prostrate to the floor, and remained in a
comatose condition for some time. The spirit was at last brought to the front,
and acted as though in great pain, repeatedly saying:

"Why didn't I take more carbolic acid? I want to die; I'm so tired of

In a weak voice the spirit complained of the dense darkness all about,
and was unable to see an electric light shining directly into her face. She
whispered faintly: "My poor son! " and when pressed for information said
that her name was Mary Rose, and that she lived at 202 South Green Street,
a street entirely unknown to us at that time.

At first she could not remember any date, but when asked: "Is it
November 15th, 1906?" she replied: "No, that is next week." Life had been a
bitter disappointment to her; she had suffered constantly from chronic
abdominal ailments, and finally, resolving to end her miserable existence, she
had taken poison.

She could not at first realize that she had succeeded in destroying her
physical body, for, like most suicides, she was in total ignorance of the
indestructibility of life and the reality of the hereafter. When the real purpose
of life, experience and suffering had been made clearer to her she was
overcome with repentance and offered a sincere prayer for forgiveness.

Then her spiritual sight opened slightly and she saw dimly the spirit
figure of her grandmother, who had come to take her to the spirit world.

Subsequent inquiry at the address given by the spirit proved her
statements to be true; a woman by the name given had lived at this house, she
still had a son living there, and we were told


that Mrs. Rose had been taken to the Cook County Hospital and had died
there the week before.

Upon investigation at the hospital we found further verification of the
facts and were given a copy of the record of the case: Cook County
Hospital, Chicago, Ills.

Mary Rose.

Admitted November 7th, 1906. Died
November 8th, 1906.

Carbolic Acid poisoning.
No. 341106.

Another case will show that identification of a spirit is often possible.

Mrs. Fl., a patient who had been declared incurably insane by several
physicians, was a refined lady of gentle disposition, who had become very
wild and unmanageable, swearing constantly, and fighting with such violence
that several persons were required to restrain her.

She was also subject to coma states, again to fainting spells, would refuse
food, announce that she "had been married above by celestial powers," and
used extraordinarily vile language; these various phases alternated constantly,
but no full proof of obsession was evidenced until one day when Mrs. Fl.
lost all power of speech, and, mumbling idiotically, simulated perfectly a
deaf and dumb person.

At this time a gentleman from an adjoining state came to the house to
visit a patient and, shortly after his arrival, the nurse who attended Mrs. Fl.
reported that the patient had again changed and was talking like a little child.
So striking was this alteration that the gentleman was asked to step into the
room to observe the patient. He was a total stranger to her but as he entered
the room she pointed to him and said, in a high childish voice:

"I know that man! He used to put bows on my shoulders. Arid he pulled
my toofies! He took me to a gypsy camp too! He lived right across the
street from me, and he used to call me Rosebud. I'm four years old."

The astonished gentleman corroborated every statement, saying that he had
known such a child in his home town in Iowa, but that she had died the year
before. He explained that he was very fond of children and had on several
occasions taken the child to a gypsy camp, and that whenever he bought
taffy-on-a stick for the little girl, he would tug at the stick while she was 
eating the candy and playfully threaten to pull her teeth.

It was evident that affection had attracted the spirit child to


her friend, and that she found in Mrs. Fl. a vehicle through which she could
make her presence known to the gentleman.

The patient was relieved of this spirit and gradually of other obsessing
influences, and several months later was pronounced entirely competent to
sign' legal papers, being declared normal and sane by a judge and jury.

Another case in point was that of Mrs. 0., who was a cook in a
restaurant. She had observed a waitress acting queerly, laboring under
delusions and hallucinations, and brought her to my office. After an electrical
treatment the patient declared she felt greatly relieved and returned to her home.

But that night Mrs. 0. herself became disturbed by an unaccountable
condition which prevented her from sleeping, and her restlessness continued
until ten o'clock the following morning, when, in the midst of her
preparations for dinner, she suddenly became wild, tore her hair, and
threatened to harm herself.

I was sent for and arriving, found Mrs. 0. raving in a demented condition,
complaining of being chased here and there and being unable to find a resting
place. Suspecting the presence of an invisible entity, I placed Mrs. 0. in a
chair, pinioned her arms to prevent a struggle, and after several remarks the
entity declared it was a man, but denied being dead, or obsessing a woman.

The spirit said his name was Jack, that he was an uncle of the troubled
waitress, and that he had been a vagabond in life. After reasoning with the
intelligence he began to realize his situation, and, promising to cause no
further annoyance, left. Mrs. 0. then immediately became her normal self and
returned to her work without any further disturbance.

It was later ascertained from the waitress that she had bad an uncle
named Jack, who had been a vagabond, and that he was dead. In this
experience Mrs. 0. had acted as the psychic intermediary to whom the spirit
obsessing the waitress had been transferred.

A number of years ago Dr. Lydston wrote in the Chicago papers of a
patient who, although having no knowledge of French or music sang well the
"Marseillaise" in French when placed under the influence of an anesthetic.
Dr. Lydston, denying the continued existence of the ego, explained this
phenomenon as one of subliminal consciousness, or unconscious memory,
comnparing it with the case of the uneducated domestic, who, in delirium,
recited classic Latin as perfectly as her former employer, a Professor of
Latin, had done during his life.


I replied, in a newspaper article, that such phenomena were frequently
met with in psychic research, and stated that, despite the classification of
materialistic scientists, these cases clearly proved the posthumous existence
of spirits and their ability to communicate through mortals. I added that if the
truth were known about these two cases, we would find that the man who
sang French was a psychic sensitive and had at the time been controlled by
some outside intelligence, while in all probability the domestic who recited
Latin was obsessed by the spirit of the former professor.

Shortly after this the gentleman alluded to by Dr. Lydston called on me,
having read my article, and said: "I don't know anything about French, but I
do know that I am bothered to death by spirits."

In the study of cases of "Multiple Personalities," "Dissociated
Personalities," or "Disintegrated States of Consciousness," modern
psychologists disclaim the possibility of foreign intelligences on the ground
that these personalities give neither evidence of supernormal knowledge, nor
of being of spiritistic origin.

Our experience, to the contrary, has proven that the majority of these
intelligences are oblivious of their transition and hence it does not enter their
minds that they are spirits, and they are loath to recognize the fact.

In the case of Miss Beauchamp, as recorded by Dr. Morton Prince, in
"The Dissociation of a Personality," reporting four alternating personalities,
no claim was made that any outside intelligences were responsible for the
various personalities, and yet "Sally" (personality 3) insisted that she herself
was not the same as Miss Beauchamp (Christine), that her own
consciousness was distinct from that of Miss Beauchamp, and told of Miss
Beauchamp's learning to walk and talk. "When she was a very little girl just
learning to walk ... I remember her thoughts distinctly as separate from mine."

Similarly in the case of Bernice Redick of Ohio, the young school girl
who constantly changed from her normal self to the personality of "Polly,"
an unruly child, every indication is given of the influence of a discarnate
spirit, probably ignorant of being dead, controlling Miss Redick.

That such "personalities" are independent entities could easily be proven,
under proper conditions, by transference of the same to a psychic
intermediary, as similar experiments have so' abundantly demonstrated.

Any attempt to explain our experiences on the theory of the


Subconscious Mind and Auto-Suggestion, or Multiple Personalities,
would be untenable, since it is manifestly impossible that Mrs.
Wickland should have a thousand personalities, and since it is so
readily possible to cause transference of psychosis from a
supposedly insane person to Mrs. Wickland, relieving the victim, and
in this way discovering that the disturbance was due to a discarnate
entity, whose identity can often be verified.

Individuals who are clairaudient suffer greatly from the constant
annoyance of hearing the voices of obsessing entities (the "auditory
hallucinations" frequently observed by alienists), and when such a
person is present in a psychic circle where the spirits are dislodged
and transferred to the psychic intermediary, interesting developments

An illustration is the case of Mrs. Burton, a clairaudient patient
who was constantly combatting obsessing spirits, and who, while
attending our circle, was relieved of her unwelcome companions. In
the following records the conversation of the spirits through the
psychic, Mrs. Wickland, will elucidate the characteristics of the
several entities.

 Patient: MRS. BURTON.

Doctor Tell us who you are.

Spirit I do not wish you to hold my hands.

Dr. You must sit still.

Sp. Why do you treat me like this?

Dr. Who are you?

Sp. Why do you want to know?

Dr. You have come here as a stranger, and we would like to know
who you are.

Sp. What are you so interested for?

Dr. We should like to know with whom we are associating. If a
stranger came to your home, would you not like to know his name?

Sp. I do not want to be here and I do not know any of you.
Somebody pushed me in here, and I do not think it is right to force
me in like that. And when I came in and sat down on the chair you
grabbed my hands as if I were a prisoner. Why was I pushed in here?
(Brought in control of psychic by guiding intelligences.)

Dr. You were probably in the dark.

Sp. It seems somebody took me by force.

Dr. Was there any reason for it?


Sp. I do not know of any reason, and I do not see why I should
be bothered like that.

Dr. Was no reason given for handling you in this manner?

sp. It has been a terrible time for me for quite a while. I have
been tormented to death. I have been driven here, there and
everywhere. I am getting so provoked about it that I feel like giving
everything a good shaking.

Dr. What have they done to you?

Sp. It seems so terrible. If I walk around I am so very miserable. I
do not know what it is. Sometimes it seems as if my senses were
being knocked out of me. Something comes on me like thunder and
lightning. (Static treatment of patient.) it makes such a noise. This
terrible noise-it is awful! I cannot stand it any more, and I will not either!

Dr. We shall be glad if you will not stand it any more.

Sp. Am I not welcome? And if I am not, I do not care!

Dr. You are not very particular.

Sp. I have had so much hardship.

Dr. How long have you been dead?

Sp. Why do you speak that way? I am not dead. I am as alive as I
can be, and I feel as if I were young again.

Dr. Have you, not felt, at times, as if you were somebody else ?

Sp. At times I feel very strange, especially when it knocks me me
senseless. I feel very bad. I do not feel that I should have this
suffering. I do not know why I should have such things.

Dr. Probably it is necessary.

Sp. I feel I should be free to go where I please, but it seems I have
no will of my own any more. I try, but it seems somebody else takes
possession of me and gets me into some place where they knock me
nearly senseless. If I knew it, I never would go there, but there is a
person who seems to have the right to take me everywhere, but I feel
I should have the right to take her. (Referring to patient.)

Dr. What business have you with her? Can't you live your own life?

SP. I live my own life, but she interferes with me. I talk to her. She
wants to chase me out. I feel like chasing her out, and that is a real
struggle. I cannot see why I should not have the right just as well as
she has.

Dr. Probably you are interfering with her.

SP. She wants to get rid of me. I am not bothering her. I only talk to
her sometimes.

Dr. Does she know you talk to her?


Sp. Sometimes she does, and then she chases me right out She
acts all right, but she gets so provoked. Then, when she gets into
that place, I am knocked senseless and I feel terrible. I have no power
to take her away. She makes me get out.

Dr. You should not stay around her.

Sp. It is my body, it is not hers. She has no right there. I do not
see why she interferes with me.

Dr. She interferes with your selfishness.

Sp. I feel I have some right in life-I think so.

Dr. You passed out of your body without understanding the fact,
and have been bothering a lady. You should go to the spirit world
and not hover around here.

Sp. You say I am hovering around. I am not hovering around, and
I am not one to interfere, but I want a little to say about things.

Dr. That was why you had the "thunder" and "the knocks." Sp. That
was all right for a while, but lately it is terrible. I must have

Dr. You will have it now.

Sp. I will do anything to stop that terrible knocking.

Mrs. B. (Recognizing the spirit as one who had been troubling
her.) I am mighty tired of you. Who are you, anyway?

Sp. I am a stranger.

Mrs. B. What is your name?

Sp. My name?

Mrs. B. Have you one?

Sp. My name is Carrie.

Mrs. B. Carrie what?

Sp. Carrie Huntington.

Mrs. B. Where do you live?

Sp. San Antonio, Texas.

Mrs. B. You have been with me a long time, haven't you? (It had
been a number of years since Mrs. B. had been in San Antonio.)

Sp. You have been with me a long time. I should like to find out
why you interfere with me. I recognize you now.

Mrs. B. What street did you live on?

Sp. I lived in many different plates there.

Dr. Do you realize the fact that you have lost your own mortal
body? Can you remember having been sick?

Sp. The last I remember I was in El Paso. I do not remember
anything after that. I went there and I do not seem to remember when
I left. It seems that I should be there now. I got very sick one day


Dr. Probably you lost your body then.

Sp. After El Paso I do not know where I went. I went some
distance. I traveled on the railroad and it was just like I was nobody.
Nobody asked me anything and I had to follow that lady (Mrs. B.) as
if I were her servant, and I feel very annoyed about it

Mrs. B. You worried me to death because you sang all the time.

Sp. I had to do something to attract your attention, because you
would not listen to me any other way. You traveled on the train and
it took me away from my home and folks, and I feel very much hurt
about it. Do you understand?

Mrs. B. I understand you far better than you do me.

Dr. Can't you realize what has been the matter with you?

Sp. I want to tell you that I do not want those knockings any
more. I will stay away.

Dr. Understand your condition; understand that you are an
ignorant, obessing spirit, and that you have no physical body. You
died, probably at the time you were sick.

Sp. Could you talk to a ghost?

Dr. Such things certainly do happen.

Sp. I am not a ghost, because ghosts cannot talk. When you are
dead, you lie there.

Dr. When the body dies, it lies there. But the spirit does not.

Sp. That goes to God who gave it.

Dr. Where is He? Where is that God?

Sp. In Heaven.

Dr. Where is that?

Sp. It is where you go to find Jesus.

Dr. The Bible says: "God is Love; and he that dwelleth in Love
dwelleth in God." Where will you find that God?

Sp. I suppose in Heaven. I cannot tell you anything about it. But I
know I have been in the worst hell you could give me with those
knockings. I do not see that they have done me any good. I do not
like them at all.

Dr. Then you must stay away from that lady.

SP. I see her well now, and I can have a real conversation with her.

Dr. Yes, but this will be the last time.

SP. How do you know it will?

Dr. When you leave here you will understand that you have been
talking through another person's body. That person is my wife.


Sp. What nonsense! I thought you looked wiser than to talk such  nonsense.

Dr. It may seem foolish, but look at your hands. Do you recognize them?

Sp. They do not look like mine, but so much has taken place
lately, that I do not know what I shall do. That lady over there, (Mrs.
B.) has been acting like a madman, and I have taken it as it came, so I
shall have to find out what she thinks of doing, and why she does
those things to me.

Dr. She will be very happy to be rid of you.

Mrs. B. Carrie, how old are you?

Sp. You know that a lady never wants to tell her age.

Dr. Especially if she happens to be a spinster.

Sp. Please excuse me, you will have to take it as it is. I will not tell
my age to any one.

Dr. Have you ever been married?

Sp. Yes, I was married to a fellow, but I did not care for him.

Dr. What was his name?

Sp. That is a secret with me. I would not have his name mentioned
for anything, and I do not want to carry his name, either. My name is
Carrie Huntington, because it was my name, and I do not want to
carry his name.

Dr. Do you want to go to the spirit world?

Sp. What foolish questions you put to me.

Dr. It may seem foolish to you, but, nevertheless, there is a spirit
world. Spiritual things often seem foolish to the mortal mind. You
have lost your body.

Sp. I have not lost my body. I have been with this lady, but she
does one thing I do not like very well. She eats too much. She eats
too much and gets too strong, then I have no power over her body,-
not as much as I want to. (To Mrs. B.) I want you to eat less. I try
very much to dictate to you not to eat that and that, but you have no
sense. You do not even listen to me.

Mrs. B. This is the place I told you to go to, but you would not go
by yourself.

Sp. I know it. But you have no business to take me where I get
those knockings. I do not want to stay with you if you take those
awful knockings.

Dr. They are in the next room. Do you want some?

Sp. No, thank you. Not for me any more.

Dr. Listen to what is told you, then you will not need any more.
You are an ignorant spirit. I mean you are ignorant


of your condition. You lost your body, evidently without knowing it.

Sp. How do you know?

Dr. You are now controlling my wife's body.

Sp. I never saw you before, so how in the world can you think I
should be called your wife? No, never!

Dr. I do not want you to be.

Sp. I don't want you either!

Dr. I don't want you to control my wife's body much longer. you
must realize that you have lost your physical body. Do you recognize
these hands? (Mrs. Wickland's hands.)

Sp. I have changed so much lately that all those changes make me
crazy. It makes me tired.

Dr. Now, Carrie, be sensible.

Sp. I am sensible, and don't you tell me differently, else you will
have some one to tell you something you never heard before.

Dr. Now Carrie!

Sp. I am Mrs. Carrie Huntington!

Mrs. B. You listen to what the Doctor has to say to you.

Sp. I will not listen to any one, I tell you once for all. I have been
from one to another and I do not care what becomes of me.

Dr. Do you know you are talking through my wife's body?

Sp. Such nonsense. I think that's the craziest thing I ever heard in
my life.

Dr. Now you will have to be sensible.

Sp. Sensible? I am sensible. Are you a perfect man?

Dr. No, I am not, but I tell you that you are an ignorant, selfish
spirit. You have been bothering that lady for some time, and we have
chased you out by the use of those "knocks." Whether you
understand it or not, you are an ignorant spirit. You will have to
behave yourself, or else I will take you into the office and give you
some more of those "knocks.

SP. I don't want those knocks.

Dr. Then change your disposition. Realize that there is no death;
when people lose their bodies they merely become invisible to
mortals. You are invisible to us.

SP. I will have nothing to do with you!

Dr. We want to help you and make you understand your condition.

Sp. I don't need help.

Dr. If you don't behave you will be taken away by intelligent
spirits and placed in a dungeon.


Sp. You think you can scare me! You will find out what will
happen to you.

Dr. You must overcome your selfish disposition. Look around;
you may see some one who will make you care. You may see some
one who will make you cry.

Sp. I don't want to cry. I like to sing, instead of cry.

Dr. Where is your mother?

Sp. I haven't seen her for a long time. My mother? My mother!
She is in Heaven. She was a good woman, and is with God and the
Holy Ghost, and all of them.

Dr. Look around and see if your mother is not here.

Sp. This place is not Heaven,-far from it. If this is heaven then it is
worse than hell

Dr. Look for your mother; she will put you to shame.

Sp. I have done nothing to be ashamed of. What business have
you to give me those knocks and have me put in a dungeon? That
lady and I made a bargain.

Dr. She made a bargain to come here and get rid of you. You have
been fired out by electricity. You have lost your company.

Sp. Yes, for a while they all left me. I can't find them. (Other
obsessing spirits.) Why did you chase that tall fellow away?

Dr. This lady wants her body herself; she does not want to be
tormented by earthbound spirits. Would you like them around you?

Sp. I don't know what you mean.

Dr. Can't you realize that you bothered that lady and made her life
a perfect hell?

Sp. (To Mrs. B.) I have not bothered you.

Mrs. B. You woke me up at three o'clock this morning.

Sp. Well, you have no business to sleep.

Dr. You must live your own life.

Sp. I will.

Dr. That will be in a dark dungeon if you do not behave yourself.

Sp. How do you know?

Dr. You cannot stay here. You had better be humble and ask for
help-that is what you need. My wife and I have been following this
work for many years, and she allows all sorts of spirits to use her
body, so they may be helped.

Sp. (Sarcastically) She is very good!

Dr. You ought to be ashamed of yourself. Do you see your


SP. I don't want to see her. I don't want to call her away from Heaven.

Dr. Since Heaven is a condition of happiness she could not be in
any "Heaven" with a daughter like you,--she could not be happy.
Suppose you were in Heaven, and had a daughter, would you like her
to act as you do?

Sp. I do not act contrary. What is the situation? Tell me that!

Dr. I have already told you the situation. You are controlling my
wife's body.

Sp. How do I do that?

Dr. Because of higher laws, and because you are a spirit. Spirit
and mind are invisible. You are so selfish that you do, not care to

Sp. This is not Heaven.

Dr. This is Los Angeles, California.

Sp. For God's sake, no (An expression never used by Mrs.
Wickland.) How did I come here?

Dr. By staying around that lady. That is how. She had to, take
those "knocks" to get you out.

Sp. She's a fool to do it.

Dr. She wants to get rid of you and she will get rid of you.

Sp. I will not have those knocks any more.

Dr. Higher spirits will show you something you do not like, if you
do not behave yourself.

Sp. (Shrinking from some vision.) I don't want that!

Dr. It is not what you want; it is what you get.

Sp. Is that so!

As nothing could be done to bring the spirit to an understanding,
she was taken away by intelligent spirits.

Upon a later occasion, when the patient, Mrs. Burton, was in the
circle, another spirit was removed from her and, controlling Mrs.
Wickland, spoke in a very individualistic manner.

Patient: MRS. BURTON.

The spirit kicked off both shoes, and seemed greatly disturbed.

Dr. What seems to be the trouble? Have you been in an accident
of some kind? (Holding psychic's hands firmly.) You have no shoes on.

SP. I took them off.

Dr. Tell us who you are.


Sp. I don't know whether I want to.

Dr. Tell us where you came from.

Sp. I don't know that I have to do that.

Dr. We would like to know who you are. What seems to be the
trouble? You don't seem to be comfortable.

Sp. I am not.

Dr. What have you been doing lately?

Sp. I haven't been doing anything. I have just been walking

Dr. And what else?

Sp. Why, nothing in particular. It seems that I have been shut up
somewhere. (In patient's aura.)

Dr. In what way?

Sp. I don't know how it is, but I couldn't get out.

Dr. How would you explain that?

Sp. I can't explain it in any way.

Dr. Did you hear any talking?

Sp. Yes, many people talked.

Dr. What did they say?

Sp. One said one thing, one another. They all think they are so smart.

Dr. Did you ever have any chance to say anything?

Sp. Yes, but I got so mad, because there was always a woman
there; she knew all I wanted to say. I felt that some, times I should
have a chance. Whenever they talked, that woman talked. A man has
no chance to say anything when a woman begins to talk.

Dr. You must have been a married man.

Sp. Why yes, I am married.

Dr. Was it a success, or a failure?

Sp. I don't know what it was-an excuse anyway. I was not so very
happy. Women always talk too much. They can't leave a fellow alone
a minute at a time.

Dr. What did they talk about?

Sp. It's that woman, she talks and talks and talks. (Patient, Mrs.
Burton, who talked constantly.) She never can keep still very long at
a time. I felt sometimes like shaking her good. We just had some new
company come in. They talk and talk. It makes me sick; they make me
get out. They are the worst I ever saw.

Dr. Did anything happen at all?

Sp. Lightning played around my head, until I didn't know where I
was. (Electrical treatment given patient.) I thought


it was far distant, but, my God and Stars in Heaven, how it hit me!

Dr.. What did you want to do at such times?

Sp. I wanted to get hold of that lightning and try to stop it hitting
my head, but the lightning strikes every time-it never misses.
Lightning used to be different; it didn't always strike, but now it
never misses. I never saw anything like it. There are stars before your
eyes, and it feels terrible, but even while the lightning strikes that
woman keeps right on talking. (Patient talked throughout treatment.)

Dr. What does she talk about?

Sp. Nothing. She wants to be boss, and I want to be boss; so
there we are.

Dr. What does she say?

Sp. You know how it is with women-they talk and talk, but there is
never anything to it.

Dr. Does the lady address you?

Sp. She torments me all the time. I feel like shaking her, but I don't
seem to have any power any more. Then there is another woman, and
she goes right at it too. It makes me sick. What can you do with a
woman to make her stop talking? If you can get any woman to stop
talking, you'll have a pretty hard time to do it.

Dr. What is your name?

Sp. It's a long time since I heard it.

Dr. Where did you come from? Are you in California?

Sp. No; I'm in Texas.

Dr. What did your mother call you when you were a boy? Sp. James
was my name, but they always called me Jimmie. Gosh! I don't know
what is the matter with me. That lightning gets on my knees and feet,
then from my head to my feet, but what I can't understand is, it never
misses its aim.

Dr. How old are you?

Sp. I will say that I am a man about fifty years of age, but I want to
say that during all my life, I never saw such lightning before, and
what I can't understand is that nothing ever catches fire from it.
Gosh! Yesterday I got into a regular nest; it was the worst I ever saw
in my whole life. I think every one was a devil. (Obsessing spirits.)
There's another one standing over there, and that came yesterday.

Dr. How long have you been dead, Jimmie?

Sp. What do you mean?

Dr. I mean, how long is it since you lost your body?

SP. I haven't lost it yet.


Dr. Don't you realize that you are in a strange condition?

Sp. I have been that for a long time.

Dr. Did you ever work in the oil business in Texas?

Sp. I don't know where I have been working; things are
very queer.

Dr. Where did you work?

Sp. In a blacksmith shop.

Dr. Do you know what year it is?

Sp. No, I don't.

Dr. How are you going to vote this Fall? For whom will
you vote for President?
Sp. I don't know yet.

Dr. How do you like the present President?

Sp. I like him; he is pretty good.

Dr. Do you know anything in particular about him?

Sp. He's all right; there's no flies on Roosevelt.

Dr. Is he President?

Sp. Of course he is. He just got in. McKinley was also a
good man, but you know, Mark Hanna had an awful influence
over him. It is a long time since I bothered with politics. I
have been shut up a long time, but, my God and Stars in Heaven,
I'm nearly crazy from that woman talking all the time.

Dr. What woman is it that talks so much?

Sp. Can't you see her?

Dr. She might not be here
Sp. Oh, yes, she is, it's that woman. (Indicating patient.)

Dr. What does she talk about?

Sp. Nothing but nonsense. She makes me sick.

Dr. What does she say in particular?

Sp. Nothing; she has not sense enough. She mocks me
every once in a while. I'm going to get her some day! Stars
in Heaven, she's terrible!

Dr. Now, friend, I want you to understand your condition.
You have lost your physical body, and are now a spirit.

Sp. I have a body. If only that woman would keep still.

Dr. This is not your body.

Sp. Stars in Heaven, whose body is it?

Dr. My wife's.

Sp. Stars in Heaven and the Heat from the Sun! I'm not
your wife. How could I be your wife when I'm a man? That's funny!

Dr. You are an invisible spirit.

Sp. Spirit? Do you mean a ghost? For Heaven's sake, talk
United States.


Dr. Ghosts and spirits are the same thing.

Sp. I know ghosts and I know spirits.

Dr. They both mean the same thing. (Taking hand of psychic.)

Sp. Say, it's not nice for a man to hold another man's hand. If you
want to hold hands, get hold of some lady's hand and hold that. Men
don't hold each other's hands,--that's cold joy.

Dr. Tell us what that woman says.

Sp. She just talks and says nothing.

Dr. Is she young or old?

Sp. She's not so very young. I get so mad at her.

Dr. I am telling you the fact when I say you are a spirit.

Sp. When did I die then?

Dr. It must have been some time ago. Roosevelt has not been
President for many years. He is a spirit like yourself.

Sp. Just like I am? Why, he's dead then.

Dr. So are you.

Sp. When I am here and listening to you, I can't be dead.

Dr. You have lost your body.

Sp. Say, don't hold my hand. It's such cold joy.

Dr. I am holding my wife's hand.

Sp. Well, you can hold her hand, but let mine alone.

Dr. Do you recognize this hand as yours?

Sp. That isn't my hand.

Dr. It is the hand of my wife.

Sp. But I'm not your wife.

Dr. You are using my wife's body only temporarily. You lost your
own body a long time ago.

Sp. How did that happen?

Dr. I don't know. Do you know you are in Los Angeles,

Sp. God, and Stars in Heaven, how did I come to California? I had
no money. You know, there are two women here. One doesn't talk so
much. She looks to me like she was sick. (Another spirit obsessing
patient.) She doesn't say much, but I suppose she is so annoyed
because that other woman talks so awful. Please don't hold my hand;
I like 'to feel free. If I were alone with a lady, and I could hold her
hand, that would be a different story. Aren't you satisfied to hold
just one hand?

Dr. I have to hold both because you will not be quiet. Now, let us
not lose any more time.

SP. I wish sometimes I didn't have so much time on my hands.

Dr. We will give you something to do.


Sp. You will? That's good. If you can give me some work of some
kind, I shall be very glad. Do you want me to fix horses, shoes? I used
to shoe horses.

Dr. In what state?

Sp. Texas. That's a big state.

Dr. Did you roam around a good deal?

Sp. Yes, quite a little. I was in Galveston, Dallas, San Antonio,
and many other places. I traveled everywhere I wanted to go. I went
to Houston and other cities.

Dr. You are a spirit and have been allowed to control my wife's
body for a short time. We do not see you.

Sp. Say, just look at those devils there, limping around like a
bunch of little imps. (Obsessing spirits.) They are all around that
woman. (Mrs. B.)

Dr. You take them all with you when you leave.

Sp. Not much I won't. (Touching necklace.) What in the world is this?

Dr. That is my wife's neck ornament.

SP. Your wife?

Dr. You have been brought here for enlightenment. You were
fired out from that other lady.

Sp. Yes, with lightning. For the life of me, I never saw anything
like it. There used to be thunder and lightning storms in Texas, and in
Arkansas, but lightning did not strike every time as it did on me.

Dr. You will not have that thunder and lightning any more.

Sp. I will not? That's good.

Dr. Was your mother living in Texas?

Sp. Certainly, but she is dead. I should know, because I was at her

Dr. You were at the funeral of her body, not her spirit, soul or mind.

Sp. I suppose she went to Heaven.

Dr. Look around and see if you can see her.

Sp. Where?

Dr. She might be here.

Sp. What place is this anyhow? If I am your wife I have never
seen you before.

Dr. You are not my wife.

Sp. You called me your wife.

Dr. I did not say you are my wife. You are temporarily using her

Sp. For God's sake in Heaven and hell, how can I get out of your wife?


Dr. Be sensible. What do those imps say?

Sp. They say they are going to stay, but I say, and say it strong,
that they are all going to go.

Dr. Do you want them to go with you?

Sp. I should say I do.

Dr. You can help them a great deal by reforming them and making
them understand their condition. They need help. You are all
ignorant spirits and have been bothering that lady. I am the one who
gave you "lightning" and chased you out. You can all 90 to the
spirit world and learn how to progress.

Sp. Is that woman going too? There is a whole lot, a gang, but I
haven't seen any of them until lately.

Dr. Can you see anybody you know? Just sit quietly -for a
moment and look around.

Sp. (Excitedly) Why, here comes Nora! (A spirit.)

Dr. Who is Nora?

Sp. Nora Huntington; she's my sister.

Dr. Ask her if your name is Jimmie Huntington.

Sp. She says it is, and that she hasn't seen me for such a long
time. (Suddenly puzzled.) But-she's dead.

Dr. Let her explain the situation.

Sp. She says: "Jimmie, you come home with me." Where shall I
come ?

Dr. What does she say?

Sp. She says: "To the spirit world,"--but I don't believe her.

Dr. Was your sister in the habit of lying to you?

Sp. No.

Dr. If she were honest before, would she lie now?

Sp. She says she has been hunting for me for years and she didn't
know where I was.

Dr. Where has she been?

Sp. Why, she's dead. I was at her funeral, and I know well that
she was not buried alive.

Dr. You went to the funeral of her body, not her spirit.

Sp. This is her ghost then?

Dr. She is probably an intelligent spirit. We do not need to argue
about that any more. Let her explain.

Sp. She says: "Let us go, Jimmie, and take the 'gang' with us." She
says she is a missionary and helps everybody she can; she says she
helps unfortunates. I have been unfortunate too.

Dr. Tell this lady, this other spirit you have been talking about, to
go with you.

SP. She says if she leaves she has no body.

Dr. Tell her she has a spirit body. She doesn't need a physical


body. Tell her that they will teach her how to progress. You take
the imps along too.

Sp. I can't carry them all with me. How do you know they all want
to go with us?

Dr. They will go if you can show them anything better than they
have now. Probably they never had any chance in life.

Sp. I never thought of that.

Dr. We cannot blame them altogether. Show them the better way
and they will follow.

Sp. Where am I now?

Dr. In California.

Sp. Where in California?

Dr. Los Angeles.

Sp. If you are in California, it doesn't mean that I am there too.

Dr. How could you be anywhere else, since you are here?

Sp. Of course, that is reasonable, The last I remember, I was in
Dallas, Texas, and the first thing I knew I was struck on the back of
my head. I was shoeing a horse when I was struck. Did he kill me?

Dr. He evidently chased you out of your body. Nobody ever
dies. If you don't go soon, your sister will become tired of waiting for you.

Sp. I'll go with her, if you'll let me, but I'll have to walk.

Dr. How are you going to walk? With my wife's body? You will
have to learn a new lesson. Just think yourself with your sister and
you will be there instantly. You will have to travel by thought.

Sp. Stars in Heaven, that's a new wrinkle!

Dr. Now, friend, you can't stay any longer.

Sp. That's a nice way to talk to me!

Dr. I don't want you to use my wife's body any longer.

Sp. What body will I get hold of when I get out from here?

Dr. When you leave this body you will have your spirit body.
That is invisible to us.

Sp. Can I jump from this body into a spirit body?

Dr. Your sister will explain. Just think yourself with your sister.
You do not need any physical body for that purpose.

Sp. I am commencing to get sleepy.

Dr. Go with your sister and follow her instructions; you will learn
many new lessons in the spirit life. Take all the gang and the little
imps with you.

Sp. (To spirits) Now you come along with me, all of you, the
whole lot of you.


Dr. Will they all go with you?

Sp. Now we are going. Come on, the whole gang of you.


On a subsequent date a spirit "Harry" was brought to the circle
for enlightenment, and, controlling Mrs. Wickland, maintained an
interesting conversation regarding another spirit that had been
troubling Mrs. Burton.

Spirit: HARRY.

Dr. Where have you come from?

Sp. I don't know where I am, and I don't know what is the matter
with me.

Dr. Would you care to know what is the matter?

Sp. I don't know what is the matter.

Dr. Did something happen to you?

Sp. That is what I should like to find out.

Dr. What have you been doing lately?

Sp. I don't know.

Dr. Tell us who you are. Do you know?

Sp. Well, I should say-well, I think I do.

Dr. Where do you think you are?

Sp. I don't know.

Dr. Yes, you do.

Sp. No, I don't know. Everything is so queer, and it just seems to
me I don't know what's the matter.

Dr. Can't you look back and see whether something happened to you?

Sp. I can't look back, I have no eyes in my back.

Dr. I mean, think back.

Sp. Think of my back?

Dr. No, think of your past. Just use your thinking faculties.

Sp. I don't know anything.

Dr. You must not be so mentally lazy.

Sp. What can a man do?

Dr. This is a woman sitting here. Are you a man or a woman?

SP. I am a man, that fellow is a man, and the others are women. I
have always been a man. I was never a woman, and never will be.
You know I am a man.

Dr. Look at your hands; where did you get them?

Sp. Those are not my hands.

Dr. Look at your feet.


Sp. They are not mine, either. I never was a woman, and I don't
want women's hands and feet, and I don't want to borrow any one's
body now.

Dr. Are you old ?

Sp. Well, I'm not a young kid.

Dr. You are probably old in years but not in knowledge.

Sp. No, I don't know that I have so much knowledge.

Dr. If you had knowledge you would not be in your present

Sp. That has nothing to do with knowledge.

Dr. Knowledge is just what you lack. Tell us what your name is.
Is it Mary?

Sp. Have you ever heard of a man being named Mary? That's

Dr. Then tell us what your name is. I can only guess.

Sp. For goodness sake alive, man, it is a man's name, not a

Dr. Introduce yourself.

Sp. What in the devil do you need my name for?

Dr. You are well versed in English. Did you have white hair as
you have now? (Referring to hair of psychic.)

Sp. I had gray hair.

Dr. Did you wear curls as you are doing now?

Sp. No, I don't like them.

Dr. Did you wear a comb?

Sp. Did you ever know of a man wearing a comb?

Dr. Where did you get that wedding ring?

Sp. I didn't steal anything. I don't want a woman's hand.

Dr. John, where did you come from?

Sp. I'm not named John.

Dr. What did your wife call you? What did your mother call you?

Sp. She called me Harry. I was not married.

Dr. What is your other name?

Sp. I do not need to tell my name to a lot of women.

Dr. There are some gentlemen present.

Sp. How in the world did I get into this crowd of women? I hate women.

Dr. You must have been disappointed in love. What was the trouble?

Sp. I'd be a big fool to tell my secrets to a lot of women.

Dr. Why did she marry the other man?

Sp. Who?

Dr. The girl who jilted you.


Sp. She never in my life-no!

Dr. Weren't you disappointed in love?

Sp. No.

Dr. Then why do you hate women?

Sp. I must not tell you any of my secrets before this bunch of
women, so they can sit here and laugh at me. I should like to know
why all these women are staring at me. What's the matter with that
man over there? (Spirit.) I mean the one behind that lady (Mrs.
Burton seated in circle).

Mrs. B. I'm a man hater; he can keep away from me.

Sp. Why is that man around her? Is he her husband? Lady, what
does he hang around you for? What's the matter with You? Do you
like him so well that you want him to stick to you like glue?

Dr. Ask him how long he has been dead.

Sp. He sure is an ugly thing. I'm afraid of him. He looks like he
wants to fight.

Dr. Ask him how long he has been dead.

Sp. Dead? He sticks so she can't move without him. Whenever
she moves, he moves. He seems to me like a monkey.

Mrs. B. Say, take him away with you, will you?

Sp. Why should I take him for? For God's sake, I don't know the
fellow! Do you like him, lady?

Mrs. B. No, I don't. I'm tired of him.

Sp. What's the matter with him? Is he your husband?

Mrs. B. No, he is not, and I don't understand it myself.

Sp. Do you like him?

Mrs. B. No, I want him to get away from me.

Sp. Where am I, anyhow?

Dr. You are in Los Angeles, California.

Sp. There's also a woman around her, and she sticks like glue.

Mrs. B. Are you here to help us? Can't you take those things
away from me?

Sp. Do you like that man who is with you?

Mrs. B. No, I am wild to get rid of him. The door is wide open; he
can surely go.

Sp. For God's sake, shut the door! I don't want such a man
following me. Why don't you tell the police? Can't the police take him
away from you, if you don't want him?

Dr. They are all spirits.

Sp. Spirits?

Dr. Yes, like yourself.


Sp. Oh, you tell me that man is a ghost, the one standing behind
that woman there?

Dr. Can you see him?

Sp. He's no spirit, he's a man. He stands there. He's afraid she will
get away from him and he can't follow. He says he is sick of her.

Dr. He is a spirit but does not understand it. She does not see him
and neither do we. He is invisible to us.

Sp. What kind of a place is this I came to?

Dr. We cannot see you either.

Sp. You can't? Don't you hear me?

Dr. We hear you, but we can't see you.

Sp. Is this a crowd of blind people? I can see them all and lots
more. The whole room is full of people.

Dr. We can hear you, but we can only hear you talk through a
woman's body.

Sp. Now, you're kidding me. You think that I-I would ever talk
through a woman? Not much! I would not go across the street to talk
through a woman. You know, I can't understand what this thing is. I
don't know why I should be here. I don't know what's the matter; all
of you are sitting around looking at me. Why are there people
standing around each one here? There are others, standing around
looking at me too. Could they have conversation with a fellow?

Dr. If I explain to you, will you try to understand? In the first
place, you are dead, as people would say.

Sp. If I'm a dead one, that's a good thing!

Dr. You yourself are not dead.

Sp. But you said I was dead.

Dr. You are dead to your own people and friends. We know you
are not dead in reality; you only lost your physical body. But you
also have a spirit body when you pass out of your mortal body. You
find yourself alive, and you have a spirit body, but you cannot
explain it.

Sp. I know I have been walking a very great deal, and it seems to
me I never get anywhere. I saw a lot of people here. I came here with
the crowd, and before I knew it, everything was light, and I saw you
all sitting around in a circle, singing. I thought it was a prayer
meeting, so I stopped, and before I knew anything, I could talk.
Before then I thought I must be deaf and dumb and blind, because I
could not see anything, and I am so tired.

Dr. Most of those you see here are spirits like yourself.

Sp.Why are we here?


Dr. Many have been brought to obtain understanding. You
yourself are controlling my wife's body. You are not my wife, but you
are using my wife's body. It does not make any difference how
strange it seems to you, it is a fact. You are invisible to us, and you
are speaking through my wife's organism. That man you speak of is a
spirit too. Take him with you when you go. He is invisible to us.

Sp. I should like to fight him.

Dr. Did you ever read the Bible?

Sp. Yes, a long time ago. I have not seen one for a long time.

Dr. You remember reading in the Bible about obsessing spirits
that Jesus cast out? He is one of that kind.

Sp. They are all around that woman (Mrs. B.).

Mrs. B. I have the door closed now.

Sp. If you keep the door closed, I'll take them along with me. I
want to fight with that fellow anyhow. What's your name?

Dr. What does he say?

Sp. He says his name is Jim McDonald. Don't you know him,
lady? If he is a spirit, for goodness sake, why does be hang on to
that woman when she doesn't want him?

Dr. Perhaps he found himself there, as you find yourself here. You
say you saw a crowd, a light, and here you are.

Sp. That man says he was walking in the dark and saw that lady.
Say, will I always have to stay here too?

Ques. What are the names of those around me? (This was asked
by another patient.)

Sp. There are two. They fight once, in a while. I see them fighting.

Ques. I fight them too.

Dr. Do not fight them physically; that gives them strength and
magnetism. When you fight them in that way, you give them much
more strength. You hold them by fighting them as you do. Fight them
mentally. Why don't you try to close up?

Sp. I will take them along too, if I can. Don't fist fight them any
more. I don't know what's the matter with me. I feel strange.

Dr. Where was your home?

Sp. It was in Detroit, Michigan.

Dr. What year can you recall?

Sp. I can't recall any.

Dr. Who is President?

Sp. I don't know for sure, but I think Cleveland.

Dr. He was President a long time ago.


Sp. I have been walking so long that I feel tired. Is there any rest
for a weary person? Have you a bed so that I can lie down and rest?

Dr. If you look around you will see intelligent spirits.

Sp. Why, I see some beautiful girls. No, girls, I will not come with
you. Don't try to fool me. I'm not going with you, not much!

Dr. They are different from the girls you have known. They are
not mortal girls, they are spirits.

Sp. They have a smile like others to give to a man.

Dr. They are different altogether. They help spirits who need help.

Sp. Those girls seem to be honest, but you know, I hate women.

Dr. You should not condemn them all because one was false.

Sp. You see, I want to take all those folks with me. If I can, I will
take them with me. I think I will follow those girls, anyhow.
(Surprised.) Why, there's my mother! She's been dead and gone a
long time.

Dr. She's not dead.

SP. Don't you think she's in Heaven?

Dr. Ask her. She can speak for herself.

Sp. She says she is in a beautiful place called the spirit world.

Dr. The spirit world surrounds the physical. "Heaven" is a
condition within you; when you have found that, you will be
contented and happy. That is what Jesus taught also.

Sp. I should like to go with my mother. She's a good old lady. I
want to take McDonald along too. Come here, McDonald. I don't
want to stay around here any longer, and I want you to come along.
He acts as if he is trying hard to wake up. Say, come on, McDonald,
let us be good fellows and go with those girls, for they might be
honest and sincere. Mother, you come along too. I will go now.
Goodby. Come on, you fellows. Say, what do you stick to that woman
for, anyhow? I should be ashamed of myself, hanging around her. I'm
going. Goodbye.

Mrs. B. Be sure and take them along with you.

Dr. What is your name?

Sp. Harry. That is all I can remember. I have not heard my name
for many years.

Dr. Make the others understand the folly of staying.

Sp. I'm going to take those fellows along. Now, you look here!
You're going to come along with me. I'll fight every damned one of
you that won't come. You ought to be ashamed


to stick around a woman like you do. Now, come along with me! you
see, they come. I'll look after them all right. Goodbye.

During another circle "Frank," one of the spirits interfering with
Mrs. Burton, left her, and controlled the intermediary, exhibiting little
trace of memory in any form.

Spirit: FRANK. Patient MRS. BURTON.

Dr. Where did you come from?

Sp. I don't know.

Dr. Do you know any one here?

Sp. I don't see anybody I know.

Dr. Don't you know where you came from?

Sp. I don't know myself. How can I answer questions when I don't

Dr. How long have you been dead?

Sp. Dead! The idea! Say, what's the matter with me? I think it
looks very funny to see you all sitting around here. Are you having a
meeting, or what is it called anyhow?

Dr. Yes, it's a meeting. Try to tell us who you are.

Sp. I don't know why I should tell you that.

Dr. You are a stranger to us.

Sp. I don't know whether I shall stay here or not. I am always
peculiar among strangers, you know.

Dr. Tell us where you came from.

Sp. For my dear life, I don't know myself, so how can I tell you?
Say, why do you hold my arm? I'm a strong man, and can sit still by

Dr. I thought you were a woman.

Sp. God above! Why do you think I'm a woman? You'll have to
look again, because I am a man, sure enough, and I've always been a
man. But things are funny, and I don't know; it has been so peculiar
with me for some time. You know, I was walking along and then I
heard some singing, so I thought I would peek in, and before I knew
it I was feeling fine. You know I have not been feeling well for some
time; everything has seemed unusual. (After becoming enmeshed in
aura of sensitive.) I don't know what is the matter with me anyhow.
Somebody said to me that if I came in where the singing was, I would
find out what is the matter with me. I have asked everybody I saw,
but everybody passed by; they were so stuck up they wouldn't talk
to a fellow any more. The people all looked like wax to me. Dear life!
I've been talking and talking,


and walking and walking, and, for dear life, I could never get any one to
answer me, or take any notice of me before. (As a spirit he was invisible to
mortals and therefore unnoticed by them.) You are the first one to answer
any question. I have some little peculiar kind of thing in my throat once in a
while, and I can't talk, and then I seem to get well again., But I feel queer, so

Dr. Can you remember anything happening to you at some time?

Sp. Something happens every day. One time I remember one thing and
another time something else, but I don't remember anything clearly. I cannot,
for dear life, know where I am at. It is the most peculiar thing I ever saw.

Dr. How old are you?

Sp. I cannot tell you that. I haven't known my age for some time.
Nobody ever asks me about that and the natural circumstance is that I forgot.
(Hearing a passing train.) Why, there's a train coming! It's a long time since I
heard that. It seems I live again for a short time. I don't know what it is.

Dr. Where did you live formerly? Where do you think you are now?

Sp. I don't know where I lived before, but right now I am in this room
with a lot of people.

Dr. Do you know you are in Los Angeles, California?

Sp. For dear life, no!

Dr. Where do you think you ought to be?

Sp. I cannot seem to recall things. There are times that I can tell you that
I am a woman, and then I get some kind of funny thing I do not like. (Static
treatment of patient.)

Dr. What do you get?

Sp. When I am a woman, I have long hair, and when the hair is hanging
down this funny thing begins. (Mrs. Burton was in the habit of taking her
hair down during a treatment.)

Dr. What do you mean?

Sp. It seems like a million needles strike me, and, for Gods sake, it is the
worst thing I ever had in my whole life! I don't want to be a woman. I only
get that funny thing when I am a woman. (Seeing Mrs. B. in circle.) She's the
one with the long hair! (To Mrs. B.) I'm going to get you!

Dr. Do you know that lady?

Sp. Yes, she gets so mad at me at times and wants to chase me away.

Dr. She probably doesn't want you around. Possibly you bother her.


SP. She bothers me too.

Dr. Try to understand your condition. Cannot you realize that you are
so-called dead? At this time you are a woman. Look at your clothes. You
say you are a man and yet you are wearing the clothes of a woman.

Sp. For God's sake, I don't want to be a woman any more! I'm a man and
I want to be a man. I used to be a man all the time, but I- cannot, for dear life,
know how I can get out of this condition. That woman says to go, and I try
to get out, but I cannot. (Suddenly recognizing Dr. W.) You are the one that
gave me that fire! Praise the Lord! I want to get rid of you. I don't like you
with all those fires you give me. I don't want to have anything to do with you.

Mrs. B. How long have you been with me?

Sp. With you? You always chase me out. What did you do with that
woman that was with me? (Another spirit* obsessing the patient, dislodged
previously.) She sang for me. We have lost her. I have been hunting and
hunting for her. Can you tell me where she is?

Dr. She left that lady and controlled this same body as you are doing
now. After that she went to the spirit world. That is where you are going
when you leave here.

Sp. That woman (Mrs. B.) has no business to scold me like she does. I
haven't done her any harm.

Dr. Suppose you were a lady and some spirit bothered you would you
like it?

Sp. Certainly I would not like it very well.

Dr. You bothered her. You are a spirit and she is a mortal. She wants to
get rid of you.

Sp. She bothers me with all those needles. They hit her on the head and
it seems like the needles are hitting my head.

Dr. She is in her mortal body, but you are a spirit, invisible to us.

Sp. What do you mean?

Dr. Just exactly what I say. Your mind is invisible to us. You are
temporarily controlling my wife's body.

Sp. Why, I never saw your wife, and I do not want to. I Will tell you one
thing, I am a man, and will never be anything else, and I don't want to be
married to you.

Dr. You may be a man, as you claim, but I want you to recognize the
fact that you are invisible to us. This is my wife's body.

See Chap. 3. Page 30, Spirit: Carrie Huntington.


Sp. For God's sake, sure I am a woman! (Noticing clothes of psychic.)
For the land's sake alive, when did these clothes come on me?

Dr. They have been on you quite a while. How did you get here ?

Sp. Somebody said: "You go in there and- you will get understanding,
because you do not need to wander as you are doing." And now I am a

Dr. Only temporarily. Try to understand what I am telling you. You
lost your body, perhaps a long time ago.

Sp. That woman (Mrs. B.) is the fault of it.

Dr. You have been bothering that lady, probably for many years,, and
you may have been troubling others. What is your name?

Sp. I can't think.

Dr. You lost your own body and have been wandering around in that
outer darkness which is described in the Bible. Were you a religious man?

Sp. I don't want to have anything to do with the churches. I am sick and
tired of them all. They all say, if you do not do so and so you will go straight
to hell, where you will bum forever. They teach and preach damnation, you know.

I was quite a young man when a minister told me I would go to that
terrible hell, and they did not want me in the church any more because I did
not do as they said I should. I did not believe any of it. I was not such a very
bad man.

After I left that church I thought I would try another. For dear life, I got
into the same hell and damnation, and I was tired of it all.

They talked of God and holy things. They said I should give my money
to God. They said I should give my tobacco to God. I could not see why
God should need my tobacco, and what little money I had. I could not see
things that way, so I left that church. I went to another church, and they
talked and talked to me. After awhile they said that the devil was after me,
because I would not give my money to the church.

One time I had been out with the boys for a while. I never drank too
much, but I drank enough that time to be lively. I thought, now I will go right
straight up to the front and sit down, so I did. They tried to save my soul for
God, so they told me. The minister said that the devil was right after me, and
I got pretty seared. He said: "And he is going to get you!" I thought I would
look behind and probably I might see him, but I didn't. He said: "Come up,
come up, and we will save your


soul from hell; come and be saved. Come to the front and be converted. You
will be born again."

I was a little contrary for a while, and then I, got up, and went right up
to the front, as I wanted to see what they would do. The minister said:
"Now you kneel down there." So I knelt down. He put his hands on my
head and they all sang and sang, and they prayed and prayed for me. They
said: "Be converted now."

I thought it was grand, all the girls putting their hands on me and singing
and praying for me. Then the minister came again, and he said: "You will
have to pray, or the devil will get after you." I could not be a hypocrite, so I
told him, if I was a sinner I would have to stay one. "I don't believe the devil
is a person, anyhow," so I told him, and he was angry. He thought I was a
bad pill. They tried all they could to convert me, but it was no good, so I
finally went away. After I left there, some men came after me, so I ran as
hard as I could, then somebody struck me on the head and I had great pain.
I fell down, but I got up again. I wanted to give that man a push down the
hill, but he pushed me and I rolled and rolled down that hill. There were lots
of people around me after I stopped rolling, and all at once I felt all right again.

Dr. That was probably the time you lost your physical body. You died.

Sp. I did not die.

Dr. What place was it, where you rolled down the hill?

Sp. It was down in Texas. I walked and ran and tried to talk to people,
but they would not answer me; they seemed like sticks. I felt so queer in my
head. I asked them if they could tell me where my home was. I felt that pain.
Once in a while I could get away. I then came to a lady, and she said: "Come
along," and before I knew it we had a crowd around us, and she used to sing.
(Evidently, the spirit, Carrie Huntington. The Patient, Mrs. B., had often
been annoyed by the singing of spirits.) I talked to her once in a while, and
then, all at once, she disappeared, and after that I got the needles. (Came
more fully into control of patient, and felt electrical treatments more keen- I
felt them pretty bad.

Dr. You are a spirit and are now using my wife's body.

Sp. How in the world did I get into your wife's body? Do You like your
wife to be all kinds of tramps?

Dr. Yes, long enough to give the spirits an understanding regarding the
invisible side.

Sp. Are these your wife's clothes? Did I borrow them for


a while? Did your wife dress me? I am sorry to show myself like a woman
and not like a man. What will these people think -that I'm crazy? (Laughter.)
It isn't funny.

Dr. You are an ignorant spirit, in outer darkness. Intelligent spirits have
brought you here to control this body temporarily, so that you can
understand your condition. Also, they took you away from that lady. (Mrs. B.)

Sp. Will she get those awful needles again?

Dr. Are there any more persons where you came from? Or are you the
last one?

Sp. The woman and the other man. went; then you gave me the needles.
I kicked like a steer to get out, but I could not. How could you expect me to
do any better? I thought of the minister that talked about hell.

Dr. That hell was not like this. There are spirits here who will teach you
how to progress in the spirit world; they will help you. Is your father living?

Sp. I don't know. I haven't seen my father for about twenty-five or
thirty years. Mother is dead, but I don't know whether father is or not. I
don't know any of my relatives.

Mrs. B. Did I meet you last November?

Sp. Yes, I have been ill ever since that time. I was not the one that was
with you close; that was the young lady. My head is hurting me terribly.

Dr. What year do you think it should be?

Sp. I should think about 1888 or 1891.

Dr. It is 1920 now.

Sp. I think there must be something the matter with me.

Dr. You have been in outer darkness for some time.

Sp. I have been walking and walking, and I got with that lady over there.
(Mrs. B.) I wanted to go. I kicked and she kicked, and we had regular
kickings. Oh, look there! See! My Mother! Oh, Mother! Can you forgive
me? I was not as you wanted me to be. Mother, will you take me? I am so
tired; I need your care and help. Will you take me? Oh, my Mother!

Dr. What does she say?

Sp. She calls me. She says: "Yes, Frank, you will come with me. I have
been looking for you a long time." I am getting weak; I feel so tired. Mother
says: "Frank, we had not the understanding of the real life, because we were
not taught what we should have been taught, so that we did not learn to
know God's wonderful universe. Religion is a long way from the real life.
The ministers all teach that we should just believe and then we are saved.
No, no; belief is only a setback.


Get knowledge of God. We do not do that."

"Frank, we will help you to learn what a beautiful world there is on the
other side when we have understanding. You have to make your own efforts
to learn to understand the Golden Rule of God's beautiful teaching of life,
and be of help and service to your fellowman."

"Now, Frank," she says, "you have been very mischievous in your life. I
know you were a good boy, but you always were too lively. You were
ignorant of the real life and went away from home when I died. The home
was broken up; you went one way and the rest went another. I did not
know, Frank, what things were, but I wish the truth could be taught."

She says: "Now come with me to the spirit world, where we have
understanding. There we have love, harmony, peace and bliss, but we have
to live for one another. You have to go to school and learn. You must not
bother any one any more, as you have done. Come, Frank, and we will go to
a beautiful home in the spirit world."

Thank you, and Goodby!


Several weeks later the last intruder left Mrs. Burton, and, through Mrs.
Wickland, inquired for the companions who had preceded her, resenting
having been held captive.

Patient: MRS. BURTON.

Dr. Good Evening, friend; who are you? (Taking psychic's hand.)

Sp. Don't hold my hand! Don't touch me!

Dr. What is your name?

Sp. My name is Maggie.

Dr. Maggie what?

Sp. Maggie Wilkinson.

Dr. Do you know that you are in Los Angeles? Where did You come from?

SP. I came from Dallas, Texas.

Dr. How did you reach Los Angeles?

SP. I am not in Los Angeles, I am in Texas. I have been kicking and
kicking all the time.

Dr. Why did you do that?

SP. I have been kicking because I have been in a prison. (Victim's aura.)
There were several of us, but they have all disappeared. (Other obsessing
spirits, previously dislodged from patient.) They have all gone but me, and I
don't like it.


Dr. Would you like to go where your friends have gone?

Sp. I don't care. I really don't care for the others, anyway. They
always wanted to have everything, and I was always behind.

Dr. Don't you realize that you are in a strange condition? Tell us
how long you have been dead.

Sp. Dead! Why is that woman with me all the time? (Patient.) She
always gets fire. She gets the worst kind of things. She gets up on
something, puts something over her head, and then fire comes!
(When Mrs. Burton seated herself upon a platform beside the
static machine, she covered her head with a woolen blanket to
make the electricity more effective.)

Dr. Do you feel that you are in the right place?

Sp. Where shall I go?

Dr. To the spirit world.

Sp. What is that?

Dr. That is where people go, after passing out of their bodies,
when they have understanding. Don't you realize that something
strange has happened to you?

Sp. If you could get that blanket from being put on my head, and
that fire, I should be all right. It seems that I was knocked to pieces.
How in the world can anyone stand being shot at like that?

Dr. That was done to chase you out. Do you not feel free now?
What have you been doing since you last had those shots"?

Sp. I am glad I was chased out, for I feel better now than I have
for some time.

Dr. Do you realize that you are controlling my wife's body? Sp.
Thank God, I am not.

Dr. This body, which you are using, belongs to my wife.

Sp. Your wife, nothing!

Dr. Do you recognize the clothes you are wearing?

Sp. That's nothing to me.

Dr. Where did you get them?

Sp. I'm no thief! I am going to have you arrested for calling me a
thief. The first police station I find, I shall swear out a warrant against you.

Dr. Maggie, what is the color of your hair?

Sp. Brown-dark brown.

Dr. (Touching psychic's hair.) This hair is not brown. These
clothes belong to my wife.

Sp. I don't care whether they are my clothes or not; I never asked
for them.


Dr. Tell us how long you have been dead.

Sp. I'm not dead. One time you say one thing, and another time
you say another.

Dr. I mean, when did you lose your body?

Sp. I haven't lost my body; it's not in the grave.

Dr. Were you ever sick, and did you suddenly become better?

Sp. I was very sick, and when I got better, I was in a prison. I was
moving around and some woman bothered me. There were lots of us,
but they all got so seared of the fire that they left.

Dr. When did you come to Los Angeles?

Sp. I'm not in Los Angeles; I'm in Dallas, Texas. If I am in Los
Angeles, how did I get here?

Dr. You must have come with a lady who has red hair. (Mrs. B.,
seated nearby.)

Sp. She had no right to bring me here.

Dr. She also came from Texas.

Sp. What became of the others?

Dr. They were brought to an understanding and went to the spirit
world. That is where you should be. Why should you hover around
that woman?

Sp. Hover around-nothing! I have been in a prison, but I could
not help it. I did what I could to get out. Those people I saw said they
would help me out, but they didn't. I made quite a disturbance, and
they went away from me.

Dr. Probably they brought you here.

Sp. All I see is people sitting around.

Mrs. B. Did you come out here with me? What do you want to
bother me for?

Sp. I have nothing to do with you. Oh! you're the one that kept
me in the prison!

Mrs. B. What was the name of that girl friend of yours You used
to be with? (Referring to another spirit that had been troubling Mrs. B)

Sp. Where? In Texas?

Mrs. B. Yes.

Sp. Her name was Mary, and there was another one, Carrie.

Mrs. B. Did Carrie come with you?

Sp. Yes, of course. Say, what did you keep me closed up for?
Why didn't you let me out?

Mrs. B. I kept telling you to get out.

SP. I know you did, but you didn't open the door so I could go.


Dr. All you had to do was to think yourself free from that lady.

Sp. I can't think myself free.

Dr. Intelligent spirits can think themselves anywhere; it is only
ignorant spirits who cannot.

Sp. (To Mrs. B.) Say, what did you keep me around you for?

Dr. You were an uninvited guest.

Mrs. B. I'm glad to get rid of you.

Sp. I'm glad too. I'm mighty glad to get out of that prison. Why
didn't you let me out? I knocked and knocked, but you kept me there.
(To Dr. W.) You gave me those fire things, then I got out, and I'm
glad of it.

Dr. Did you get out after the last treatment?

Sp. You call that a "treatment"?

Dr. If you got out of that lady, I should call it a good treatment.

Sp. You don't know how I suffered from that fire, especially the
shooting. You are the one that gave me that fire, and I don't like you!

Dr. I had to give the lady those treatments to get you out.

Sp. You think that devil-machine is a little god. You want me to

Dr. To the spirit world.

Sp. Where is that?

Dr. A place where the discarnated spirits go to get
understanding. You have lost your physical body but do not
understand it, and you have been bothering that lady. (Mrs. B.)

Mrs. B. When once I get you and the others out, I shall keep the
door closed, and closed so tight that none of you can get in.

Dr. Think yourself free and you will not be in a prison. Mortals
cannot travel by thought, but spirits can. You are invisible to us. You
are temporarily using the body of another; this body, belongs to my wife. 

Sp. You have told me that before.

Dr. Can't you see you are in a strange condition?

Mrs. B. Do you know Maggie Mackin? (Another spirit whose
presence Mrs. B. had clairaudiently been aware of.)

Sp. Yes, and I know Mary too.

Dr. How old were you when you passed out of your body? Can
you recall something of your past?

Sp. I remember being out riding and the horses ran away,


then everything became dark, and since then I do not seem. to
remember much.

Dr. Do you know what year it is?

Sp. I don't have to answer you. Are you a lawyer or a judge?
Who are you?

Dr. I'm a "fireman." Can you realize that it is 1920?

Sp. It doesn't bother me that much. (Snapping fingers.) I don't care.

Dr. I thought you were anxious to get out of your trouble.

Sp. I wanted to get out of that prison, and now I feel better than I
have for years.

Mrs. B. You ought to thank Doctor for getting you out.

Sp. That man ought to be arrested for giving those shots. it made
you feel like your head was going to the dickens.

Dr. Can you see any of your friends here?

Sp. There are two Indians, one is a big fellow, and one is a girl,
and there is a lady with curly hair and light blue eyes. (Spirits.)

Dr. Does the Indian girl answer to the name of "Silver Star" ?
(One of Mrs. Wickland's guides.)

Sp. Yes.

Dr. These spirits will help you to progress in the spirit life.

Sp. There's one thing sure, I'm going to Heaven, and not to the
other place. I went to church and was a good woman.

Dr. Those persons whom you see are spirits like yourself. We do
not see them.

Sp. They are there, just the same. They say if I will go along with
them, they will show me a nice home. That would be nice, for I
haven't had a home for a long time. Am I going to have that fire any
more? I won't go to that woman with the red hair any more, either,
and I thank God for that.

Dr. Now think yourself free and go with these friends.

Sp. All right, I will go. Goodby!

When Mrs. Burton first came to us she could not follow any
occupation, but after the obsessing spirits were removed she was
able to take a clerical position in a large commercial house.